Curse

upier · Nov 05, 2009, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by nawak

so now in fct due to this update , the ONLY way to do UW has become SC

Which means that by nerfing SF - there will be no way to beat UW.

Stole the next quote from another thread because it became my favourite post regarding nerfing UWSCs:

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbulger

i wouldn't call our time a speedclear, we just wanted to go for completion. faster times can definitely be had, but there is lots of risk. the difficulty level is on par with DoA in my opinion. the rewards are also not worth the cost at the moment. maybe with time, ectos will rise more and e-blades also, but until then, its more of something to do for a challenge.

If you can't do UW in a non-SF group now, there is a high chance that you STILL won't be able to do it even if they do trash SF!
My suggestion: get a bunch of friends that want to play in a sub-par way. That will save you oh-so much trouble!

Elephantaliste · Nov 05, 2009, 08:04 PM // 20:04

/unsigned
no SF fix should not lead to nerfing every skills that are used along with it...

if your right foot is broken, trying to fix left foot instead is non sense, right ?

The Drunkard · Nov 05, 2009, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by rb.widow

So everyone in the game WHO DOES NOT do SC should get screwed because of a few who do, the easiest way to nerf it, is to simply make SF have a longer recast time or make the enemies have touch skills that remove enchants, thus bypassing SF altogether.

Essence is what made ursan so broken, you could spam skills without any team coordination and roll through areas. It would've been fine had they converted the damage to physical and increased the recharge on rage.

edit: Misread comment, thx hawk for pointing it out

HawkofStorms · Nov 05, 2009, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Drunkard, I think you are misreading Elepantaliste. He agrees SF is broken, but doesn't see the point in "fixing" it by nerfing Essence. He'd rather nerf SF.

And... Essence isn't what made Ursan OP. It helped, but Ursan was still OP without it. Ursan was OP because you could perpetually keep an entire enemy mob knocked down (essentially, doing the same thing as SF... preventing enemies from even having the opportunity to even use skills against you). Essence helped, but the reason Ursan was OP (and Raven and Wolf were not) was because of the damage mitigation from perpetual kd/weakness spam combined with consistent damage.

Yawgmoth · Nov 05, 2009, 09:03 PM // 21:03

FFS! Stop seeking ways around the most obvious thing. There's nothing more obvious than the fact that maintainable god mode is BAH-ROH-KEN. It was more than obvious mere days if not hours after the dreaded update and it should have been reverted immediately (and made a form instead of a spell to prevent Arcane Echo)

obsidian ectoplasm · Nov 05, 2009, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by isildorbiafra

I would say the best thing anet can do is release gw2 fast so we can all dump this broken game.

I tink this guy is right.
gw days are over.

talisk3 · Nov 05, 2009, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winry Sagara

I think... New descriptions...

Elite Enchantment Spell. All enchantments on you are removed. For 5...18...21 seconds, all Spells not casted by you that target you fail and all attacks against you miss, but you can't inflict damage. When Shadow Form ends, lose all but 5...41...50 Health.

Elite Enchantment Spell. For 5...18...21 seconds, enemies can't see you, but you can't inflict damage. When Shadow Form ends, lose all but 5...41...50 Health.

The meaning of a Shadow Form, is a Ghosthly Form, why enemies must see me when I'm in a ghostly form? Why i have to inflict damage when I'm a ghosthly form? I think this one can be only a simple runner.

What's the point in shadow form if you can't do damage, just for a run skill?

Bob Slydell · Nov 06, 2009, 02:23 AM // 02:23

Personally, I want them to nerf it NOW so I can stop seeing "UWSC" or "SF" in one way or the other in the top guru threads and can now be bombarded with a new generation of QQ threads from elitist pricks about their UWSC being a normal timed run like the way farming used to be. God forbid you spend an couple hours on a GAME.

Crippie its Tom · Nov 06, 2009, 01:06 PM // 13:06

nerfing essence would just bring back the OF terra into UWSC.

nawak · Nov 07, 2009, 07:11 PM // 19:11

simple awnser to all i have read in this post :

1-why not just nerf perma ?

perma who dont use SF are very bad farmer , compare it to a 600 it just sucks
though they are a old school build who has no reason to be nerfed as a tank ...or u must nerf defy pain and obsidian flesh also who are more powerfull tanks

2-why all essence user would be screwed ?

not screwed ,meteor use as mutch fast cast (witch is not provided actualy in essence) as fast reload for exemple , it is not just a nerf it is a change , and if u cant adapt then start playing a bit without noob conset it will help you to improve lol

try to play a bit perma without cons and u will see it is far from over powered , i go faster at farming any zonne with other characters than perma , perma is suposed to be a tank not anything else.

what i realy think is that gos never should have existed and perma should have stayed a/mes like it has been since NF release

but certainly not that they should be deleted ... if u delete perma , ok but then delete 600 , spirit spammer , 55hp , obsidian tank , well evry succesfull build ^^

600 can farm like 10 time more place than a weak perma

but nerfing essence would not affect game balance , still it would put teamway back in tracks

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schnellburg

I would love to point out that Manlyway spikes have been around since before the CoP nerf. Plus this is another Nerf SF thread. Either abuse it like the rest of us, or keep your complaints to yourself. This is getting quite old and annoying. Go buy Factions and NF and start using it, lets see how much you complain when you running through rragars in like 13 mins or frosties in like 13 mins as well. If thats too fast, form a balanced group and take your time playing through it.

i am abusing it and still ask for nerf ...what about that ? too hard for u to imagine?

just to let u know , i am uwsc + fowsc + soosc+ ragnar sc all area ...
still i ask for nerf

Quote:

Originally Posted by talisk3

What's the point in shadow form if you can't do damage, just for a run skill?

ever heard about tanking ?

and for all that ask for SF nerf , no need for 2 reason :

1-perma are far from being good farmer without essence
compare to 600 they suck

2-perma existed as soon as NF was release , it did not unbalance the game at all , no one was doing uw under 9 minutes or 7 .
when did that occure ? when EON was released ...1 st it has been noob ursan ... then after nerf , noob uwsc (yeah i played them still think they are noob even if i m kinda pro uwsc)

ps: yes perma existed before eon , echo perma, no need "noob , gos is eon skill"

PPS: no without essence uwsc wont exist , gos perma cant uwsc , they would be slower than lot of teams and woould require too mutch candy and stuff for nrj etc
for exemple 600 would go faster (yes 600 can do all uw even if u dont know how)

AND WHY WE ASK FOR NERF IS NOT BECAUSE WE CANT PLAY SC BUT BECAUSE DUE TO SC WE CANT TEAM PUG CAUSE ALL PUG WANT TO DO SC BECAUSE IT IS OVER POWERED
SO WE ASK FOR BALANCE TO BE RETABLISHED SO THAT GW GO BACK TO A TEAM GAME WITCH IS IT S ORIGINAL PURPOSE
SORY IF YOUR ONE OF THOOSE NOOB THAT NEED UW TO BE DONE IN LESS THAN 20 MINUTE TO FIND IT INTERESTING

Schnellburg · Nov 07, 2009, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Even if they nerf it so can only tank, people are still going to be using it for Speed Clears. With a normal Rragars/kathy/Frostmaws team the tank (s) don't have to do any damage, just hold aggro. Frosties yes you can sliver the 4th floor, Rragars you can sliver the 2nd floor, Kathy you can solo the 1st and 2nd floor and just have your party do the 3rd with you. In theory if they make SF only a tanking skill, it won't slow down the speed clears that much, maybe make then take what another 2-3 mins. Not that big of a deal.

And it is not only getting old, but pathetic that people keep complaining about Shadow Form. Anet can't afford to get rid of it, too many people will quit the game. Even Lindsey herself said she was hesitant about touching Shadow Form, so...

Tenebrae · Nov 07, 2009, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schnellburg

Anet can't afford to get rid of it, too many people will quit the game.

This is the 986th time ive read this. Wont happen , like it didnt happen with UB nerf . At this point i dont really care if they change it , nerf it or leave it but if they do something about it , i will come here to see ppl QQ and have some fun .

nawak · Nov 08, 2009, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schnellburg

Even if they nerf it so can only tank, people are still going to be using it for Speed Clears. With a normal Rragars/kathy/Frostmaws team the tank (s) don't have to do any damage, just hold aggro. Frosties yes you can sliver the 4th floor, Rragars you can sliver the 2nd floor, Kathy you can solo the 1st and 2nd floor and just have your party do the 3rd with you. In theory if they make SF only a tanking skill, it won't slow down the speed clears that much, maybe make then take what another 2-3 mins. Not that big of a deal.

And it is not only getting old, but pathetic that people keep complaining about Shadow Form. Anet can't afford to get rid of it, too many people will quit the game. Even Lindsey herself said she was hesitant about touching Shadow Form, so...

bull shit

1-sc WILL be anihilated if you remove essence , i do play a lot my sin , i can tell you without essence , perma is just a very common farm build... lot slower than a 600.
specialy in the most used : FOWSC and UWSC cause other's sc even the most popular of them SOOSC are like representing 1/10 in number of player speacking
and i m quite xp at uw and fow and i can tell you frankly : doing pool , chamber , pit , terra1 or 2 , ... without conset is just bull shit , once again , 600hp go faster. and even a team would go faster and be so mutch more fun that no one would use anymore .
SC cant be without essence , any pro in SC know that.

and no , no one will leave the game if they remove SC ... like tenebrae said , it did not happen with ursan blessing nerf , it wont happen with essence nerf...
only a very few noob who will be replaced by as mutch good player who left the game because it was too easy since SC release.

leehai1980 · Nov 08, 2009, 03:37 AM // 03:37

All i got to said is someone has a "birdbrain" from the start and also they never think of the newcomer . Now they are stealling the fun from alot of people and also you are destroying the game. All i got to said is Nerf the stupid conset so that SF is not so OP rather then nerfing the UW which stole fun from ppl.

Maker of the fallen · Nov 08, 2009, 04:08 AM // 04:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schnellburg

Anet can't afford to get rid of it, too many people will quit the game.

and if they don't get rid of it, people will farm themselves into a deep boredom and quit anyways.

Schnellburg · Nov 08, 2009, 04:12 AM // 04:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by nawak

bull shit

1-sc WILL be anihilated if you remove essence , i do play a lot my sin , i can tell you without essence , perma is just a very common farm build... lot slower than a 600.
specialy in the most used : FOWSC and UWSC cause other's sc even the most popular of them SOOSC are like representing 1/10 in number of player speacking
and i m quite xp at uw and fow and i can tell you frankly : doing pool , chamber , pit , terra1 or 2 , ... without conset is just bull shit , once again , 600hp go faster. and even a team would go faster and be so mutch more fun that no one would use anymore .
SC cant be without essence , any pro in SC know that.

and no , no one will leave the game if they remove SC ... like tenebrae said , it did not happen with ursan blessing nerf , it wont happen with essence nerf...
only a very few noob who will be replaced by as mutch good player who left the game because it was too easy since SC release.

Did I say anything about an essence, No. Don't put words in my mouth I never said. Noone said you can't do a Speed Clear without an essence. I've been in Frog runs that took 4 mins, NO ESSENCE, Kathy runs 3rd floor 3 mins, NO ESSENCE. All killing off essence will do is make the runs take a bit longer. You can still do A/Me and use Arcane Echo. Lastly, quite a few players, let me rephrase that, A lot of the Good players that are left, will quit if SF is nerfed. We have already lost a lot of good players to Aion, losing more will suck.

As for what the topic at hand, SF, like Lindsey said "We are hesitant to mess with SF." Does that mean they will nerf it or not, who knows. I don't and you don't. All I know is that the people that are most likely complaining about it are the folks that aren't/don't know how to abuse it.

Skye Marin · Nov 08, 2009, 05:30 AM // 05:30

It's nice to want things.

Shadow Form is not going to be hit, nor any skills or consumables that enable it. Too many people use it for too many farms. These farms fuel many people's attempts to fill titles, and achieve GWAMM. These people are loyal customers, and have as much right to enjoy the game as anyone else. It doesn't make any sense to make them upset.

Adding a final boss that is incompatible with Shadow Form would defeat all known speed clears, which is what they want to do.

I'll repeat. Anet wants to slow down speed clears of Elite Areas, but does not want to nerf SF from its current form.

leehai1980 · Nov 08, 2009, 06:03 AM // 06:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skye Marin

It's nice to want things.

Shadow Form is not going to be hit, nor any skills or consumables that enable it. Too many people use it for too many farms. These farms fuel many people's attempts to fill titles, and achieve GWAMM. These people are loyal customers, and have as much right to enjoy the game as anyone else. It doesn't make any sense to make them upset.

Adding a final boss that is incompatible with Shadow Form would defeat all known speed clears, which is what they want to do.

I'll repeat. Anet wants to slow down speed clears of Elite Areas, but does not want to nerf SF from its current form.

If 1 to slow down speed clear can just nerf the conset and what Anet have done wrong is that they did not stop the player from using this UWSC as soon as this build was created which make the player develop this kind of mindset . Now its hard to throw this mindset away zzzzzz.

reaper with no name · Nov 08, 2009, 06:52 AM // 06:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skye Marin

It's nice to want things.

Shadow Form is not going to be hit, nor any skills or consumables that enable it. Too many people use it for too many farms. These farms fuel many people's attempts to fill titles, and achieve GWAMM. These people are loyal customers, and have as much right to enjoy the game as anyone else. It doesn't make any sense to make them upset.

Adding a final boss that is incompatible with Shadow Form would defeat all known speed clears, which is what they want to do.

I'll repeat. Anet wants to slow down speed clears of Elite Areas, but does not want to nerf SF from its current form.

Non-Godmoders also have just as much right to enjoy the game. And guess what? SF upsets them. So either way, someone will be upset.

So, since those two arguments cancel each other out, I guess we're left with the argument of balance. Wait, what's that? SF is so broken that there's no point in playing anything else? It removes all challenge from the game? It makes it so that all those monsters and skills and other professions are meaningless? Well, I guess it should be fixed then.

Thank you for shooting yourself in the foot for me.

You're also ignoring the fact that Anet is concerned about SF being used for other things, such as vqs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schnellburg

Even if they nerf it so can only tank, people are still going to be using it for Speed Clears. With a normal Rragars/kathy/Frostmaws team the tank (s) don't have to do any damage, just hold aggro. Frosties yes you can sliver the 4th floor, Rragars you can sliver the 2nd floor, Kathy you can solo the 1st and 2nd floor and just have your party do the 3rd with you. In theory if they make SF only a tanking skill, it won't slow down the speed clears that much, maybe make then take what another 2-3 mins. Not that big of a deal.

And it is not only getting old, but pathetic that people keep complaining about Shadow Form. Anet can't afford to get rid of it, too many people will quit the game. Even Lindsey herself said she was hesitant about touching Shadow Form, so...

Actually, Anet can afford to do anything it wants at this point. Since, you know, they're not making any more money off of this puppy.

They're hesitant about nerfing SF, yet they're also saying that they recognize it's broken and that something needs to be done, for the very same reason you said they won't: too many people will leave the game.

Seriously, do you not understand that you are defending GOD MODE? You are saying that the game should have no challenge. You are saying that there should be no monsters (since SF more or less removes most of them from the game). You are saying there should be no profession other than the assassin (since a properly-utilized SF sin makes every other profession completely useless). You are saying that no player should ever die or face the possibility of loss. In effect, you are saying that there should be no game at all, since that's what you're left with at the end of the day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nawak

simple awnser to all i have read in this post :

1-why not just nerf perma ?

perma who dont use SF are very bad farmer , compare it to a 600 it just sucks
though they are a old school build who has no reason to be nerfed as a tank ...or u must nerf defy pain and obsidian flesh also who are more powerfull tanks

2-why all essence user would be screwed ?

not screwed ,meteor use as mutch fast cast (witch is not provided actualy in essence) as fast reload for exemple , it is not just a nerf it is a change , and if u cant adapt then start playing a bit without noob conset it will help you to improve lol

try to play a bit perma without cons and u will see it is far from over powered , i go faster at farming any zonne with other characters than perma , perma is suposed to be a tank not anything else.

what i realy think is that gos never should have existed and perma should have stayed a/mes like it has been since NF release

but certainly not that they should be deleted ... if u delete perma , ok but then delete 600 , spirit spammer , 55hp , obsidian tank , well evry succesfull build ^^

600 can farm like 10 time more place than a weak perma

but nerfing essence would not affect game balance , still it would put teamway back in tracks

i am abusing it and still ask for nerf ...what about that ? too hard for u to imagine?

just to let u know , i am uwsc + fowsc + soosc+ ragnar sc all area ...
still i ask for nerf

ever heard about tanking ?

and for all that ask for SF nerf , no need for 2 reason :

1-perma are far from being good farmer without essence
compare to 600 they suck

2-perma existed as soon as NF was release , it did not unbalance the game at all , no one was doing uw under 9 minutes or 7 .
when did that occure ? when EON was released ...1 st it has been noob ursan ... then after nerf , noob uwsc (yeah i played them still think they are noob even if i m kinda pro uwsc)

ps: yes perma existed before eon , echo perma, no need "noob , gos is eon skill"

PPS: no without essence uwsc wont exist , gos perma cant uwsc , they would be slower than lot of teams and woould require too mutch candy and stuff for nrj etc
for exemple 600 would go faster (yes 600 can do all uw even if u dont know how)

AND WHY WE ASK FOR NERF IS NOT BECAUSE WE CANT PLAY SC BUT BECAUSE DUE TO SC WE CANT TEAM PUG CAUSE ALL PUG WANT TO DO SC BECAUSE IT IS OVER POWERED
SO WE ASK FOR BALANCE TO BE RETABLISHED SO THAT GW GO BACK TO A TEAM GAME WITCH IS IT S ORIGINAL PURPOSE
SORY IF YOUR ONE OF THOOSE NOOB THAT NEED UW TO BE DONE IN LESS THAN 20 MINUTE TO FIND IT INTERESTING

Clearly, you don't know how to use SF properly, because it beats 600 at almost everything. In fact, I cannot think of a single situation in which 8 SF sins would not beat 8 600 monks (yes, even those ones with touch skills and whatnot), for the simple fact that 600 monks tend to be 2-man teams. The difference in effectiveness between the two is huge.

leehai1980 · Nov 08, 2009, 08:15 AM // 08:15

my guild mate said it might be the gold seller that upset the ncsoft or anet what ever but i think is ncsoft do it not anet.